Stephen McBride ([email protected])
Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:01:08 +0100
On 22 Sep 98, at 18:33, Warren Mahaffey wrote:
> Hi!
> I'm an Irish-American and I'm neither Catholic or Protestant. If it
> helps,
> well, I'm LDS (Mormon).
Now, I find this fascinating as I used to work for an LDS guy in his
record shop, when I was a student, and a more sane, more
compassionate human being, I had not previously encountered.
this was a man who was prepared to give me time to moan about
my "Angst" as an adolescent, when he didn't have to, and this
always made a deep impression upon me. He gave me a splendid
discount on my U2 LP's and singles in those days too!
Whilst I may have found some of his beliefs incomprehensible, this
didn't matter to me as he had shown me what a decent human
being he was. He was a bishop in one of the Stakes in Belfast,
and I went to see what a Mormon service was like, simply because
of his friendship to me, and because of my deep disillusionment
with the pernicious effects of religion in Northern Ireland.
Although I don't share many of the LDS' beliefs, his example
played a large part in me becoming a Christian in 1982.
I remember reading many of the Mormon churches pamphlets, and
I remember them describing themselves as Protestant, simply
"because we are not Catholics". But it is true to say that LDS
beliefs are certainly very different to traditional protestant beliefs, in
regards to theology. That said, I can understand your father
referring to himself as "Orange", because a good 99% of LDS
converts in Northern Ireland come from Protstant backgrounds.
Roman Catholics, certainly in the past, would have faced hideous
pressures from their church if they dared to desert Holy Mother
Rome!!
> What is the political situation concerning those
> in Ulster who are neither Catholic or Protestant? My dad said that he
> was told that we were "Orange" by his father when he was very young by
> his father. I would be grateful for any information you could send me.
Ha! LOL! You ask for the world, my friend!! I am sure I will do scant
justice to your excellent question, but I will try!! There is a joke
which best illustrates the position of those Northern Irish who are
neither Protestant or Catholic.
It concerns a wealthy Protestant woman who employs a maid.
Naturally her neighbours are concerned about the religion of the
maid, for it would never do for a Catholic to be employed,
and thus lower the tone of the neighbourhood! So, discreetly of
course, because the Northern Irish are very well mannered if
nothing else, a neighbour asks the religion of the maid.
Well, what she actually asks,"Is the maid one of us (meaning
Protestant) or one of them (Catholic)?"
The wealthy woman replies, "Well, neither actually, she's Jewish!"
This nonplusses the neighbour somewhat who ponders this reply
for a while, and then says, "Well, that's all very well, but is she a
Protestant Jew or a Catholic Jew?"
In essence this is the fate of those who are outside either faith.
Northern Ireland is awfully tribal, and one is forced by others to
take a side, or fit into a pigeon hole, whether one likes it or not.
The Jewish community, for instance would, politically identify with
the Protestant one for a number of reasons. Firstly, there is the
historical antipathy between the the two faiths, Judaism and
Catholicism. Also, most NI Jews are wealthy, and will feel
perfectly at home with the predominantly Protestant business
community. As incidentally do many wealthy Catholics.
Confused? Don't worry! I've lived here for 34 years,
and I find these sorts of contradictions confusing still.
Judaism in what is now the Irish Republic has suffered horribly at
the hands of the Roman Catholic church, with the Jews of Cork
being burned out of their houses by mobs lead by priests in 1905.
This is documented in the archives of "The Cork Examiner", Cork's
main newspaper. The founder of Sinn Fein/IRA, Arthur Griffith, was
an appalling racist and anti-Semite, who viewed Jews and blacks
as equally sub-human. In World War II, Sinn Fein/IRA allied itself
to Nazi Germany, even though the Irish Free State remained
neutral. Many of Sinn Fein more repugnant beliefs in the exclusion
of all who aren't of true Irish descent come from their disgusting
alliance with that most hellish of regimes. This is something that
SF/IRA do not deny, though it's also a subject where they are
noticeably very silent!
Consequently, other religious faiths which share the Judaeo-
Christian root, tend to identify with Northern Irish Protestantism.
Other faiths, such as Islam and Hinduism, are represented by very
small numbers of people, mostly university lecturers, etc., and tend
to be very apolitical.
There are also the children of mixed marriages in both Irelands,
who until the 1970's the Catholic church insisted be brought up as
Catholics (The "Ne Temere" decree). Children such as Bono. It is
very interesting that Bobby Hewson chose to have his son brought
up in the faith of his mother, Iris.
I too am from a mixed marriage. My father is Protestant. My
mother is Catholic. When my parents married in 1961, my mother
received the most appalling abuse from her priest, and was
abandoned by her family. Small wonder that she chose to have me
brought up as a Protestant! This thankfully is changing as Northern
Ireland and the Irish Republic become far more secularised.
Interestingly, your name, Mahaffey, although coming from a
Protestant background, indicates some Catholic influence too! As
I said, Northern Ireland, Ireland and their histories are anything but
simple and easy to categorise!!
The Hare Krishna's own an island in the middle of Lough Erne,
incidentally!
Hope this has been of some help.
Stephen
>
> Thank you,
> Ronald Mahaffey
>
> "No more!" - U2 "Sunday Bloody Sunday
Hear hear, Ronald
>
>
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