Elizabeth Platt ([email protected])
Fri, 3 Jul 1998 20:23:34 -0700 (PDT)
Where were we? Oh yeah:
[I wrote]:
>>It is to Hume's credit that he did have to suffer a lot of particularly
>>nasty personal abuse for his willingness to talk and cooperate with the
>>Republican Movement, and managed to (thus far) tough it out and prove
>>his detractors wrong. Right now, he's being daft because there's
>>another *election* coming up (June 25th), and the SDLP tends to get
>>pretty daffy when they're in a race.
[Karine replied]:
> Hoo hoo !!! Hume is daft ???? Tell me why, please ?
"Daffy", not "daft"...they get a bit silly when there are votes to be got,
that's all. Like making rather absolutist statements before the election,
the reversing it after the election. You know: Before an election, a
vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for violence, but _after_ the election,
those same votes are suddenly a vote for "peace". Howdeydodat? as we
Yanks would say! I know, I know--politics as usual...
>>They'll be rational again after the final
>>count....
> What a bad idea you have here ;-)
I have a lot of bad ideas! >:)
>>No, Trimble has been dragged along by the process, all the while doing
>>anything he can to stomp it out.
> We don't get the same analize about his behaviour....
I'm not the only person who sees Trimble's situation this way--the power
struggles and peculiar dynamics of Unionist politics is far too complex to
delve into in a single post, so I have to be a bit sketchy here. But a
lot of people see Trimble as having jumped into the peace process with an
eye to one-upping the Paisleyites, only to find himself pulled along by a
political process too strong to stop.
>>Do you recall how the UUP kept John
>>Major and the Conservatives in power until the bitter end, at the
>>expense of Phase I of the peace process? I'm sure that they never
>>expected their opponents would manage to put the pieces back together
>>again.
> You forget Major needed the votes of the NI conservatives to keep
>his majority. Not very courageous...And Trimble isn't the only one person
>in his party.
Oh no, I recall very well that Major sacrificed the peace process to
political expediency--and that the UUP went along willingly in doing so.
I'd like to see some proof that Trimble wasn't content with this
arrangement! Also, I'm quite convinced (as are others) that, with the
election of the Labour government, he tried the same obstructionist
tactics in the renewed peace talks that started up after the IRA renewed
their cease-fire. This time, there wasn't any backing for this sort of
thing from the new British government, so it didn't work. Nor has it
worked (at least so far) in excluding Republicans from the new Assembly,
etc. Time for the man to get a clue and begin to make some constructive
moves!
There's never been a better atmosphere for a Unionist leader to make a
clean break with the hard-liners like Ian Paisley...for a start, Trimble
should actually get back to his constituency, particularly Portadown, and
actually *talk* to his constituents on the Garvaghy Road, before another
"marching season" blows up in everyone's faces. Yes, I said
"constituents"--he's their MP, and he won't pay them the respect of
meeting with them face-to-face! If talking is the way forward--and it
should be--then _everyone_ needs to talk. All the pretty words about
"parity of esteem" etc. mean nothing when a Member of Parliament can't
find it within himself to go talk to his own constituents, presumably (?)
because _their_ elected local rep is a former prisoner? Odd, since
Trimble had no qualms about working with the UDP and PUP, whose reps to
the peace talks were...ex-prisoners, albeit loyalist ex-prisoners!
We need to be wise, and not fall for the notion that Trimble has been to
the forefront of the peace process, least of all because Bono held his
hand at the Waterfront Hall Concert! Most Republicans I know assume U2
were more naive than anything in doing the concert, and don't see it
having been anything wrong--if it helps to nudge Trimble and his
supporters along the road to genuine peace work, all the better.
Flawed, perhaps, but well-meant. But we'll need to see some actions to
match the rhetoric in the coming days and weeks; the man needs to get over
it, and talk with the residents' groups, talk with Sinn Fein, talk with
whoever wants to talk.
>>The UUP
>>were pleased as punch to have run the whole thing into the ground in the
>>first place, and when the new Labour government came into power, their
>>bluff was called,
> You think "bluff", not me.
>>and they had to at least make a pretense of taking part
>>in the renewed process. Trimble wants to wreck things from within,
>>whereas Paisely wants to wreck from the outside. What's the difference?
> The difference is i don't see at all Trimble behaviour like you.
>IMHO (please don't forget this) you're blind if you don't see the
>difference betwenn Trimble and Paisley.
Sure, there are differences--but not enough to allow Trimble to be re-cast
as a major peacenik, you know! As I said, let's see some actions that
genuinely reflect a wish for a new way of thinking and working. Leave it
to the dinosaurs to beat the drums and stir up hate. Talk to everyone,
including, yes, those people you think of as your enemies. They'd
willingly talk to him! Yes, it's going to be a bitter pill to swallow,
but believe me, there have been plenty of "bitter pills" consumed in the
North over the past few years. Why should Trimble and the UUP be the only
party to not do the same?
>>Now that a narrow majority of the unionist voters have come out in favor
>>of the pact, perhaps he'll feel more comfortable in actually becoming
>>part of the process. Perhaps.
> You're not sure ? ;-))
It pays to be cautious--I wrote that a few days before the Assembly
elections--and the UUP didn't do very well at all in the election. The
DUP clawed their way back to third place, and the UUP's overall vote
dropped. For a few hours there, the SDLP was clocking in as the biggest
party in the North! I fear that the UUP's getting a kicking may force
them towards taking a harder line on just about everything, for fear of
losing wavering supporters to the DUP and UK-UP.
>>> All i can say is this: USA are farer from NI than Ireland...;-)
>>And how are things in Paris these days? ;-)
> Very good, thanks :-D Hopefully, we're here less one-sided than
>some Irish-Americans...;-))
I'm not an "Irish-American". There is some (Protestant) Irish background
in my family tree; and I'm half Quebecois on my mother's side. I have no
specific "ethnic" identification that influences my politics.
>>Seriously, I've met people
>>in Dublin who know fuckall about the situation in Northern Ireland, but
>>who then try to lecture me about US foreign policy! Proximity means
>>nothing to understanding things--if this were the case, what about the
>>Milarepa Foundation, who put the whole Tibetan Freedom Concert together?
>>They're based right here in San Francisco, yet I don't see many people
>>rushing to wag the finger at them because they're thousands of miles
>>away from Tibet. But then, Tibet is a "trendy" issue with the Beautiful
>>People, right? So no one questions them, I guess.
> Do you think people at the TFC really understand what happens
>there ?
I'm not discussing the audience, I'm discussing the very selective attacks
made on American-based supporters of Irish reunification, while the same
people don't object to "trendy" political causes (Tibet, South Africa,
etc.) run by organizations far, far from the country in question. It's
just another one of those "communist dupes" propaganda ploys, designed to
discredit and censor any voices that don't support the status quo.
>>Why should you be embarassed for my sake?
> Why not ?
Well, whatever floats your boat, I guess...
>>My politics have always been
>>strongly Republican--and yes, I have been a supporter of the armed
>>struggle in the past; I've been at this for 20 years, you know!--so it's
>>natural I would be more supportive of Sinn Fein. I've got my own
>>criticisms of that party (mostly relating to media/culture and US
>>organizing), but yeah, they're the political party whose analysis
>>matches mine.
> I just want to know if you can stand other opinions than yours
>and if you can see your own mistakes. Warning !!! I don't say you make
>only mistakes, right ?
Of course I can "stand" other opinions--why are you so biased as to assume
that I don't? Why do you automatically jump to that sort of conclusion?
Could it be that...gasp...you're the one who's got the blinkers on here?
You know, every day, when I log onto my email, I get news pumped to me
from all sources, in Ireland, the US, Britain, and sometimes even further
afield. Just today, I got to read through statements and editorial pieces
from various newspapers, Irish and loyalist political parties, and
organizations, ranging from Sinn Fein to the Orange Order! In another
email discussion list, I spend most of my time arguing with "dissident"
republicans and leftists who want to see the Republican Movement smashed
and the peace process destroyed. Frankly, I deal with more diverse
opinions every day than many residents in Ireland, north or south. But if
you feel more comfortable holding to your wee stereotype of ignorant,
"one-sided" Irish-Americans, be my guest.
>>Don't patronize me, OK?
> Where is your sense of humour ? ;-))
I shot it and buried it in the back yard.
>>I've talked with more people over the past two
>>decades about this issue than I can count! From every corner of
>>Ireland, America, Canada, England, Scotland, you name it--I don't preach
>>to the converted (frankly, some of the converted annoy me to no end....)
>>And you seem to forget that very few people actually hear any
>>alternative to the line put forth by the British government through the
>>media--sometimes people need to be challenged and made to think by
>>hearing something *different* from time to time!
> Maybe you also need to hear something different...
What is there that I've somehow missed? All you've done is cluck your
tongue and waggle your finger at me, but never seem capable of telling us
all what is so "different" that I have to hear or see or read? Name a
source; give us a URL or author or title; in the immortal words of Dr.
Evil, throw me a frikkin' bone, will ya? I've only been following and
studying the situation for 20 years, so I'd like to know what I've missed!
Slan,
Elizabeth Platt
[email protected]
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.0b2 on Fri Jul 03 1998 - 20:24:38 PDT